75 Comments
Jan 11Liked by Dr. Deborah Hall

Quote I like... from Thornton Wilder:

"Without your wound where would your power be? It is your very remorse that makes your low voice tremble into the hearts of men. The very angels themselves cannot persuade the wretched and blundering children on earth as can one human being broken on the wheels of living. In Love’s service only the wounded soldiers can serve."

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author

these words are both comforting and inspiring to me

thank you so much for giving them to us here

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Jan 10Liked by Dr. Deborah Hall

Starting next week I will be teaching 2 classes (because there was so much interest, they wanted me to teach a 2nd session) on the topic: "The Problem of Evil." St. Monica's boy thought he answered that Q and put it to rest. He didn't. I'm pretty sure I can refute. Even if not, my students will have thought about many things for the 1st time. That's my ultimate goal. Refutation is penultimate.

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author

this will be so moving, enlightening, and I imagine sometimes shocking

to hear the thoughts of your students when facing the question of evil

and responding to the deep questions you will surely ask them

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Jan 12Liked by Dr. Deborah Hall

It's not so much the "why" of evil, or the commision or outcomes of it. It's the toughest conundrum of all. How can evil be so ubiquitous, given the tri-omni proclamations of monotheism? How can a tri-omni diety exist in the face of hourly suffering by millions of creatures? ... humans beings being the most conscious of evil.

Example:

If firemen, who are aware of an accidental (poor wiring) deadly fire, are on the scene, able to extinguish it, and don't do it, they would be reviled and imprisoned. That act of neglect would be considered utterly immoral.

Yet...

An omni... potent, knowing, loving, present, god allows innocent people to die and livable habitats to be detroyed. How can that be?

We know human evil and natural, catastrophic, suffering is always occurring. It seems to be axiomatic and unabated.

There seems to be a canyon of conflict between unjustified belief and reality.

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Such an erudite and civilized group here. I'll share a favorite, because I am worried about the natural world given humanity's poor husbanding of the planet:

ONE STORY

Always somewhere in the story

which up until now we thought

was ours whoever it was

that we were being then

had to wander out into

the green towering forest

reaching to the end of

the world and beyond older

than anything whoever

we were being could remember

and find there that it was

no different from the story

anywhere in the forest

and never be able to tell

as long as the story was there

whether the fiery voices

now far ahead now under

foot the eyes staring from

their instant that held the story

as one breath the shadows

offering their spread flowers

and the chill that leapt from its own

turn through the hair of the nape

like a light through a forest

knew the untold story

all along and were waiting

at the right place as the moment

arrived for whoever it was

to be led at last by the wiles

of ignorance through the forest

and come before them face

to face for the first time

recognizing them with

no names and again surviving

seizing something alive

to take home out of the story

but what came out of the forest

was all part of the story

whatever died on the way

or was named by no longer

recognizable even

what vanished out of the story

finally day after day

was becoming the story

so that when there is no more

story that will be our

story when there is no

forest that will be our forest

— W.S. Merwin, from Travels (Knopf, 1993), also found in Migration: New & Selected Poems(Copper Canyon Press, 2005), winner of the National Book Award. Used with the permission of the publisher.

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author

knowing nothing

i opened my mouth

and read aloud

word for tender word

the breathing forest

speaking

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and you have to add your own punctuation, which gives you new readings time after time

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author

o my

I shall do so

I shall do so

thank you Benjamin

for bringing your treasure

to the party

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Dr. Hall, the most liberating idea and experience I have had is when I finally received the message from all the great thinkers in our Western tradition AND connected that same message to themes emanating from Buddhism and found in other worthy traditions. The idea is clear and simple - there is no reason in nature for the existence of humanity. We exist for the same reason there is a universe instead of nothing. The reason, and value, for humanity is that we can create a reason and we can create values. I personally think that organized religions are derivative and unhelpful, but at the same time I know that a lot of people really rely on religion in spite of the obvious fact that it is invented by humanity and that most formulations are internally conflicted, morally flawed and impractical. John Lennon suggests "whatever gets you through the night" is alright. By contrast with organized religions, organized Buddhism included, existentialism leaves you with a stark realization that there is no magic in the world and that no one is coming to save you. Many, many implications for one's behavior flow from this brute fact.

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author

Benjamin,

Thank you greatly for bringing your deep thoughts and ideas to share with us here.

Your perspective is unique and welcome.

I love Camus, especially his tender novel The Plague.

Learned French to read it in his words.

The idea that no one is coming to save us depends on what we mean by saved.

I was saved by Jewish psychoanalysts.

Am attempting here to give what I got.

I look forward to learning from you.

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The lucky ones learn from each other. But (I'm being provocative here) we have had over a hundred years of Freud and the world is still all messed up.... Somebody somewhere is not getting the lessons.

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o that is beautiful Benjamin

has me laughing aloud

Freud is laughing with me :)

given that I must repeat the lessons

(the brute facts:)

to myself every morning

(physician heal thyself)

it is small wonder

most folks would prefer a quick fix

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This is a fun forum. thank you.

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Jan 7·edited Jan 7Liked by Dr. Deborah Hall

What may I call you? Deborah? Doctor Hall? Ms. Hall? ... or something else?

I'm curious...

What formed who you are? What was life like for you growing up? How do you think others see you... those who aren't your intimates? How do you want to be seen?

For me to assume you are a well-educated religious person really isn't much to go on. They aren't much more helpful than stereotypes.

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author

see below

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author

great questions!

thank you

will reply tomorrow

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author

I can answer your first question easily:

Dr. Hall.

(It was hard won:)

The others will take a little time.

But you will be surprised to learn

I don't relate to the idea of being religious.

I laughed because I've never been called that before.

Religion is, as you say, mostly man made.

And we all know people are crazy :)

I enjoy some aspects of religion

but all the judgment

and damning of non-believers

is downright pathological.

I love life and I love people.

So do you.

I don't need you to share my belief that God made life and love.

Do I need to believe that? Yes.

Do you need to believe that? No.

Haha I love you just the way you are

and if there IS a God

I am sure He does, too :):)

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Jan 8·edited Jan 8Liked by Dr. Deborah Hall

I will run with an idea that there might be a God. But there is no way to know his disposition toward me or anyone else. That is a tradition and a convention of the mind of people and their cultures. And the evidence is quite lacking. I know people that are much more loving than what i've seen from anything like a traditional god. An excellent argument can be made that god has no interest and is neutral. He's off to his next project! When I teach, I tell students that it appears that god went out for a smoke and never came back. It always gets a laugh. And there are also good arguments to be made that god is as capricious as he is good.

I think it's in our best interest to love each other. We cannot survive as lone wolves.

Love is a vulnerable position. That's what makes it so fantastic and yet can leave people open to be damaged. Innocent as doves...

We all know the world is a dangerous place and that evil resides everywhere. It can also be natural like viruses. We know this.

I would prefer to be a classical romantic but my observational skills won't usually allow that.

If you want to understand what I mean by the word evil, I mean it is seriously dehumanizing. It's when suffering occurs to an innocent party or group. Historically women and children have often been the victims of suffering. Humans can be used as a mere means to an end. It is when they are treated as less than. It's when they are treated as non-existent.

I ask you hard questions because I know there's more to everyone than meets the eye. You've already surprised me. I like surprises.

I look forward to your next answer.

So what should you call me?... Since I have hard earned knowledge (degrees) and wisdom? "One Who Waits" will do.

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author

o ye who waits

arise

may all you seek

surprise

confound ignite astound us

spark questions

all

around us

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Jan 9Liked by Dr. Deborah Hall

I come into the peace of wild things

who do not tax their lives with forethought

of grief. I come into the presence of still water.

And I feel above me the day-blind stars

waiting with their light. For a time

I rest in the grace of the world, and am free.

- Wendell Berry

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author

tears

what a gift to receive this morning

thank you

i am

a wild thing

and have peace

with kindred spirits

here

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Jan 9Liked by Dr. Deborah Hall

I can wait for that.

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author

What formed who you are? you asked.

I am touched

and honored that you would want to know.

Thank you.

Your questions aren't

hard, just deep.

And I love deep questions!!!

I would already have answered them all

if my hours and days

were not so full.

I am creating further avenues for my ideas,

am a competitive duathlete training four days a week for the National Championships in Omaha in June; and am a happy wife who loves to cook dinner for my man. You get the picture haha.

I am glad you said

"I can wait for that"

because it will take me a bit to answer

your questions,

but I look forward to it!

Thank you again for being here and sharing your best.

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I believe that the guiding principle of life is to love my neighbor as I love myself and therefore do with and unto others as I would have them do with and unto me. That concept presupposes respect for others that reflects my self-respect.

Namaste is the term that most closely encompasses the whole idea and the result of that practice is a life lived at peace with myself and with the people I interact with.

Sometimes I achieve that, sometimes I fail miserably and spend time in introspection to determine the root of my lapse. I have become a better person over the years as a result of that study and learned not to take myself more seriously than I take anyone else.

Interesting questions Dr., and Interesting comments from your readers too. Thank you.

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author

Namaste, Dave.

I hear and appreciate how you seek to show respect,

gratitude, and love towards yourself and others.

When you fall short, as we all do,

I especially salute you spending "time in introspection to determine the root of my lapse."

That part takes rare courage.

I am glad you are here sharing your insights with us.

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What do you mean by "belief?" As a person who has some training in, and teaches philosophy, that is a word that needs unpacking. To believe something, or to believe "in" something can be very different. It's important for me to know that there is verifiable evidence before I believe something.

Believing in something can be synonymous with trust or faith. Some people trust things that may not be verifiable. Sometimes "belief in" is a hope, wish, or intuition. Most people believe in the traditions and customs in which they were raised - that are familiar and non-threatening.

Many Buddhists feel that Self is an illusion and spending time thinking about oneself is detrimental to living a fruitful life... especially because Self is an illusion. Selflessness appears to be a highly prized characteristic in most world religions, yet talking about self as an illusion seems odd.

To believe that something is true is to have knowledge. Usually, that requires emperical evidence that can potentially be falsified. Most people use belief as a synonym for the word faith. Faith is belief without evidence.

Epistemology aside, I believe in my wife. She is visible. If I talk with her she listens and she talks to me in a voice I can hear. If I ask her for assistance, she usually gives it freely. She does kind things for me. I can see them and she may even leave a note. She gives real hugs.

I don't worship her, nor does she demand that I do. That would be awkward.

All the things she does for me I try to do the same for her. It's real, face-to-face, love that I can feel and don't have to read about. I can see it every day. I don't need it interpreted. It's right in front of me and I have lots of proof.

Could it all be an act? It's possible, but unlikely. Neither of us have had acting lessons.

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@B. Mays. Dr. Mays, (I'm having fun with this one) even our religion of the scientific method and the reliance on evidence and falsifiable petitions is probably an illusion. The latest work on quantum (next word), as far as we can tell, seems to indicate that our "rules of physics" may be local, or temporal, or partial in some way. My own pet theory is that our brains operate on quantum principles, as does photosynthesis etc etc. Inquiry - can our quantum brains ultimately figure out quantum principles?

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Jan 9·edited Jan 9

Scientific method... Religion? Not even close. It's just the way of testing hypotheses.

Me? The meaning of life is having a sense of belonging and not making life so complex that you think meaningful things have to be invisible. Life is the dirt under your feet.

How quantum mechanics works is meaningless to me. If I drop a ball, I have a pretty good idea of what's going to happen to it. Trial and error. That's a scientific method... Not a religion. Not even close.

Nobody called Einstein a heretic when he disproved Newton's laws. Einstein wasn't lynched or burned at the stake. Nobody tried to torture him so that he would. deny his findings.

Your field... Econ. Now that can be a matter of life and death... Eating or starvation. It can even confer status. Economics can be very meaningful. Is it a religion?

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The basis of a good discussion. I believe Harris, Hitchins, Dawkins and Dennett had a least a good go at this topic, but I sort of internalized the main points and forgot the detailed debate that they carried on. my bad...

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Jan 9·edited Jan 9Liked by Dr. Deborah Hall

Yes but I still believe in love! Maybe it's just brain chemistry but I'd like to think it's magic. I'm willing to be delusional for love.

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Dr. Mays. I really like your formulation here.

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Only my friends are allowed to call me Dr. Mays. My uncle used to call me that when I was about 11. He passed away about three years ago. Other than that i'm just... My wife's husband.

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Jan 9·edited Jan 9

There is causation. It's not other-worldly. It's one of the perks of being alive. We're here. We might as well make the best of it. Science never claims to know everything. It just wants to keep looking. Someone will refute einstein someday. Until then, there is space and time.

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author

B Mays,

I believe you have a delightful mind.

Your entire response gives me the proof.

I daresay your Self is no illusion.

To me, selflessness is self destructive.

No matter how many sainted religions

espouse it.

I welcome you bringing your free

and undiluted Self to Solutions.

That is all you will find here of me.

As for "believing in..."

faith is belief in things unseen.

Things I can neither see nor touch

--like grace and mercy--

are just as real to me

as things I can grab with both hands.

I would make a lousy materialist.

The best of me is a dreamer

made of fire and light.

What do I mean by belief?

Anything Marx would laugh at.

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Jan 7Liked by Dr. Deborah Hall

You speak like a poet. You may see life through the lens of a poet.

I see grace and mercy all the time. It's from my friends and loved ones. Humans have great imaginations. All of the arts are proof of that.

I believe that humans made god. That would make perfect sense and explain the ethnic and genocidal killing that religions have birthed and inflicted. On the surface, religion seems to be a good idea, but in praxis, it is used in a tribal way and as a weapon of control. I understand love. I think religion tries to codify love and that is an oxymoron. Religion always becomes judgment, and judgment and love are opposites.

Thinking like a poet and wish casting don't need to be the same thing.

There is great beauty in what is seen and known. What is seen and known is breathtaking. Why can't that be enough?

Aren't The Beatitudes all about selflessness? It's a rhetorical question.

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author

Thank you, I do indeed see life

through the lens of a poet.

Poetry runs though my veins

as essential life.

Emerson's essay The Poet

speaks to me.

Yes, you see grace and mercy

all the time.

"Judgment and love are opposites"

you say, and you are so right!

i reject all judgment in religion.

May yet be burned at the stake

for all my sacrilege.

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https://youtu.be/PtgKkifJ0Pw?si=UT4HFBfMkhHM1HS1

Fun stuff. Hope you get a laugh.

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I believe and practice daily in being friendly, no matter the political affiliation whether known or unknown, of those I pass by. This daily practice is always accompanied by a smile. This is sure to lighten someone’s burden every day.

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author

yes it does, it does Steven

you are generous accepting light

they see and feel your smile

and it does lighten their burden

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Jan 6Liked by Dr. Deborah Hall

Questioning should be like breathing!

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author

what a refreshing original thought!

my ears hear the opening line

of a poem

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Jan 6Liked by Dr. Deborah Hall

Ha ha, it does seem to fit my style. I’ll think of one later and I’ll publish it in Notes and send you a copy.

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Jan 6Liked by Dr. Deborah Hall

Thanks for those kind words I guess I can turn a phrase. I think it comes from reading a lot of tag lines when I used to drink a lot of Salada tea, lol.

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author

Ha ha, I am delighted

that I did indeed hear your voice!

I grew up in a family of poets

so my ears are tuned :)

I would love to receive

your poem whenever

the words emerge

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Jan 6Liked by Dr. Deborah Hall

It’s nice to have a voice, ha ha.

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author

yes

it's the cat's meow!!!

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Jan 6Liked by Dr. Deborah Hall

Purrfect

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Micah 6:8 "To act justly and to love mercy and to walk humbly with your God."

That's the best summary of what I strive for.

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author

it would be hard to find

a finer ideal than yours

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Jan 5Liked by Dr. Deborah Hall

I believe in being good, kind and loving. My examples growing up were the opposite, so I chose for myself how I wanted to be. You talked about forgiveness, but the way I healed and survived was by not forgiving the unforgivable.

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author

Joanne,

I rejoice that you survived and healed

and came through

doing it the way you needed to.

Being good, kind and loving

is such a wonderful belief

and way of life.

Your belief is holding you

and carrying you forward now,

as it always did.

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Jan 7Liked by Dr. Deborah Hall

Thank you Deborah for the kind words. This is self preservation for me.

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Jan 5Liked by Dr. Deborah Hall

one word GRATITUDE. Gratitude for what we have, gratitude for how we are loved, gratitude to be alive NOW. When one is grateful they are at peace, happy and want others to be likewise filled with joy. It also is a gauge for people you need to avoid= ungrateful.. as that will poison your life.

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author

yours are wise words

on the centrality of gratitude

and I will ponder them

I never thought of ingratitude

as a way to gauge

whether to avoid someone

but yes

I see...

an ungrateful person

will feel perpetually refused

after turning the silk purse they were given

into a sow's ear :)

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Jan 5Liked by Dr. Deborah Hall

Hi. Dr. Hall. I have some thoughts on this ...

First, I believe in the values and tenets of Western Civilization ...the ethical values, traditional customs, belief systems, political systems, artifacts, and technologies. Add to that the firm belief in the sovereignty and rights of the individual.

Personally, I think it's important for people of all ages to have a purpose, whatever that might be. For me, it is expanding my writing projects, maintaining peak physical condition and mental acuity, and finally, just to be a good person.

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author

Jim,

I love how your beliefs and values are so rich and fuil and wide and deep.

How wonderful that your work with others is built upon this rock solid foundation.

And that your own purpose grows from it!

Thank you for sharing your vision with us.

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